(Full Episode Transcript Scroll To Bottom of Page)
04:34 – Do looks & money really matter in dating? Uncovering the surprising truth!
06:06 – The reality of gold diggers: Why settle for less when you can have more?
08:00 – Wealth vs. potential: What’s more attractive to women? Our guest reveals all!
10:30 – The “evolution of desire”: How motherhood impacts a woman’s dating value
12:37 – Wealth matters, but potential wins! How to showcase your future success in dating
13:42 – Men’s & women’s peak dating ages: Debunking myths & understanding the real differences
16:36 – Eastern Europe’s views on unmarried women over 30: The surprising impact of feminism’s absence
18:40 – The “pussy-pass”: How a 23-year-old woman’s attractiveness compares to a billionaire man’s power
21:42 – Attention men: Here’s why your late 20s aren’t too late for love!
22:41 – Early 20s & broke? Discover how to project potential wealth & boost your dating game!
28:34 – My love story: How pretending to be wealthier landed me my wife
34:59 – Love & opportunity: How hiring my wife for a Ukrainian road trip kept our romance alive
41:42 – The final verdict: Does money truly make or break relationships?
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Mariia Kramer [00:00:00]:
I want a really rich guy who don’t work and just get the Louis Vuitton bags every day.
Robbie Kramer [00:00:04]:
Obviously, money matters, right? Saying money matters is the same as saying, like, looks don’t matter. Why marry poor when you can marry rich? And what guy wants to marry a woman with a bunch of baggage? When you filter for hot, you’re also filtering for crazy. So you thought I had a little bit more money, right? What matters more? A guy’s current level of wealth or his potential level of wealth? They say women are sex objects and men are success objects. I hate that I called myself a YouTuber. I’m not a YouTuber, damn it. Just post on YouTube sometimes.
Robbie Kramer [00:00:33]:
Welcome to the Inner Confidence podcast, where we bring you men’s dating and lifestyle advice that doesn’t suck. I’m your host, Robbie Kramer, a former collegiate golfer turned poker pro turned finance guy who became obsessed with learning about male female attraction and dynamics and passionate about teaching men how to improve and optimize their love life. Tune in each week and we’ll bring you the latest and greatest strategies on how to get more dates, how to build a thriving social circle that brings the best men and women into your life, how to become a better networker, and how to design a lifestyle that makes all your buddies jealous. If you’re new to the show, I recommend you download my First Date Protocol. It’s the best piece of content I have. It’ll help you optimize your first date and subsequent dates. And I like to connect with my listeners personally, so if you want to grab a copy of that, please send me a direct message on Instagram. I’m at Robbie Kramer. Now, let’s dive into this week’s content.
Robbie Kramer [00:01:25]:
Hey, guys, we’re back and we have my lovely wife Maria here. Baby, thanks for being here. You’re the good co host, you know?
Mariia Kramer [00:01:33]:
I hope so. My English is not sick.
Robbie Kramer [00:01:36]:
Your English is great. So today we’re going to talk about a highly debated topic, one that always gets a lot of hate in the YouTube comments or just in social media in general. And that’s how much does money matter when it comes to dating. We’ve discussed this before, and I think it was on the Playing with Fire podcast and you were on and Anna was on.
Mariia Kramer [00:02:06]:
Yeah, and it’s ridiculous because when guys hear that money are important for girls, they immediately think that girls are all their fucking bitches and blah, blah, blah. But it’s not true, and they never want to list and why are they important? And it’s not about, guy needs to have thousands of dollars per day to spend on a girl. No, it’s just for simple life.
Robbie Kramer [00:02:36]:
So every time you bring this up, you feel like there’s guys who immediately start saying, oh, she’s a gold digger.
Mariia Kramer [00:02:44]:
Yeah, most of guys. But I never say that. I want a really rich guy who don’t work and just get Louis Vuitton bags every day.
Robbie Kramer [00:02:54]:
So you married me, so clearly that’s not what you’re looking for.
Mariia Kramer [00:02:59]:
But I always explain that I just need a guy at least who has the same level as I have and earns the same amount of money that I do. And it’s the level to start together, right? Obviously it’s good if the guy earns more money or has something else, but this is not important for me. It’s important that we start from the same level.
Robbie Kramer [00:03:25]:
Well, let’s break that down for a second. So the first thing that almost every woman hears if they’re beautiful is you’re a gold digger. Or the most douchey bonehead guys will always accuse all beautiful women of being gold diggers. And that’s like the most surface level, silly conclusion to jump to if you’re a guy that doesn’t get beautiful women.
Robbie Kramer [00:03:56]:
Robbie Kramer [00:03:57]:
There’s what you call cognitive dissonance, and that is being upset about the things that you can’t have. I might have butchered that, but along the lines of that. So it’s like because you can’t get something, you say, oh, I don’t even want it. Right? Because women don’t want you. You say, oh, whatever, I don’t want them anyways. They’re all gold diggers.
Mariia Kramer [00:04:12]:
Yeah, it’s like an excuse that it’s not about you, it’s about them. And it’s so annoying because it’s always.
Robbie Kramer [00:04:18]:
About them, of course. And those are the type of people that are going to write hate in social media comments, because it’s really easy to be a keyboard warrior and hide behind your device and just type mean things away. But let’s kind of dispel that rumor that all beautiful women, why is that not true? Why do beautiful women obviously money matters, right? Saying money matters is the same as saying, like, looks don’t matter, or these other things that really matter. Status doesn’t matter. Everything matters.
Mariia Kramer [00:04:52]:
Robbie Kramer [00:04:53]:
So whenever you hear someone says, oh, looks don’t matter, money doesn’t matter, they’re probably just doing that to get a reaction and to have a more clickbaity title or try to draw someone in to watch the rest of their content. Because the truth is, all of these things matter, right? If you’re trying to choose your highest possible quality companion to spend the rest of your life with, you’re going to weigh all of these different things. And that’s going to help you decide, like, is this person someone I want to be with or not? Is this guy sex worthy? Is he relationship worthy? Is he just friend worthy? Or is he worthy of literally nothing?
Robbie Kramer [00:05:30]:
Robbie Kramer [00:05:30]:
There’s different buckets and categorizations that you’re going to put potential suitors in as you’re meeting them and assessing them. So in a little bit, I want to get into the story of how we met and how I used money strategically to woo you. And I use the absence of money to also woo you. I don’t want to say sneaky, but I feel like it was clever, what I did. But before we get into that, what do you think matters more, a guy’s current level of wealth or his potential level of wealth.
Mariia Kramer [00:06:06]:
Look, first I want to mention there are gold diggers, right? We cannot say that there are not. Obviously there are, but they’re so obvious. They will tell me, hi, let’s go to that the most expensive restaurant, or can I expect for some gift? Then it’s obvious. But most of girls, they work, they have their life. They just want to have a good companion, as you mentioned. Right. And unlike guys, girls have a lot of options. It’s not like guys have like some.
Robbie Kramer [00:06:33]:
Guys have a lot of options.
Mariia Kramer [00:06:34]:
No, I know, but most of guys don’t, right? And if the guy has, like, 15 girls that want to be with him and what, he will tell us that he will choose the girl and look don’t matter. Dad don’t matter. Sex don’t matter. He will choose, like, five out of ten, right. If he has options, the ten out of ten. Right. And it’s so hypocrite, right? Girls have so many options, especially beautiful girls. They have, like, tons of guys, right? Of course she will choose the guy who has a good status that has.
Robbie Kramer [00:07:07]:
Well, it’s like, why marry poor when you can marry rich?
Mariia Kramer [00:07:10]:
Robbie Kramer [00:07:11]:
If you’re combining or if you’re trying to assess this guy versus that guy. Bob looks the same. Everything’s the same about Bob. But Bill has a bigger bank account. Well, you’d be dumb for not choosing Bill. Just like if I was married, right? Like, if I could choose between you and your twin, everything exactly the same except your twin’s rich. I would choose the twin.
Mariia Kramer [00:07:31]:
Yeah. It would be so stupid. And the thing that it’s not about like, there are money and love doesn’t exist. No, rich people love each other, too. Rich people also love someone. It’s just insane. And obviously, if there is a guy who has a lot of money, he’s abusive. None of the girls will be with the guy unless the girl had some trauma from childhood, but we don’t speak about that.
Robbie Kramer [00:07:59]:
All right, getting back to my question. What matters more, a guy’s current level of wealth or his potential level of wealth?
Mariia Kramer [00:08:07]:
Current, I would say. Because for guys, the older he is, the more status he gets and more attractive he becomes for a girl, the older she gets, then no one needs her. A lot of girls, you commit to the relationship, right? You’re both, like, 25, and after in ten years, you thought he had a good potential, and in ten years, he didn’t make anything, nothing happened, and the potential just disappear. And you’re already 35, right? He didn’t propose to you, and blah, blah, blah. Now you’re alone and you’re 35, and all guys will look for girls who are 25.
Robbie Kramer [00:08:44]:
Yeah, but you married me knowing I wasn’t very rich, but you saw potential in me.
Mariia Kramer [00:08:50]:
It’s not about potential. It’s about your status. And your level was higher than mine. I don’t need you to be insanely rich. I need just you to have you’re.
Robbie Kramer [00:09:00]:
Not getting what I’m saying.
Robbie Kramer [00:09:01]:
Robbie Kramer [00:09:02]:
Like, yes, my status was at a level or higher than yours.
Robbie Kramer [00:09:06]:
Robbie Kramer [00:09:06]:
And wealth is a huge indicator of status.
Robbie Kramer [00:09:09]:
Robbie Kramer [00:09:09]:
Saying money matters is the same as saying status doesn’t matter. We all know status matters a lot, and wealth is an indicator of status. Right. But if you thought maybe you’re okay, when we got married or when we started dating, you probably saw that not only was I relatively successful, but I also had potential to be more successful, right?
Mariia Kramer [00:09:32]:
Yeah. I mean, if you’re ready relatively successful, it mean that you won’t stop.
Robbie Kramer [00:09:38]:
It’s not like yeah, of course. So when women are choosing men, right, if potential didn’t matter, then, like a guy who was like 21 or 22, who didn’t have money yet, but maybe who was going to Harvard or someone who was very smart, and you could tell that down the road, they’d be extremely successful. Those guys would have no chance. But you see those guys doing really well.
Mariia Kramer [00:10:00]:
I mean, it’s like your mom, she married your dad and he was in the school to become a doctor and everything, and she knew that later on in life they will be sad.
Robbie Kramer [00:10:10]:
Of course. That’s what I’m saying.
Mariia Kramer [00:10:11]:
And it’s smart. Your mom is smart because she was thinking about her kids. She knew that she will be able to provide for her kids. All women think, I mean, there is some child free, but most of women think how they can provide for their babies, right, and they don’t want a guy who won’t be able to afford school, like, I don’t know, diapers and some stuff.
Robbie Kramer [00:10:31]:
Well, no, women understand that once they have children, their value on the open dating market, if they were to become single again, their value gets tremendously lowered.
Robbie Kramer [00:10:46]:
Robbie Kramer [00:10:46]:
Now she’s got baggage, as they say, with those kids. And what guy wants to marry a woman with a bunch of baggage, right?
Mariia Kramer [00:10:54]:
A good guy.
Robbie Kramer [00:10:55]:
Well, sure, he’s a good guy, but that woman is way less desirable than a woman who doesn’t have that. Yes, that’s what I’m saying. If I’m choosing between a woman who doesn’t have kids and a woman who does have kids, and I want kids, of course I’m going to choose a woman who doesn’t, right? Because it’s like less baggage. I don’t want to take care of those kids. I don’t want to be responsible for that if I have the options of if everything else is equal.
Robbie Kramer [00:11:19]:
Robbie Kramer [00:11:20]:
So women understand this, and that’s why it’s so important for them to choose a guy with status and ideally with some money, because they don’t want to be in a situation where they’ve got this humongous burden.
Mariia Kramer [00:11:34]:
For me, it’s different if the guy has a child and they see that the guy can provide for his child and he can provide for our future.
Robbie Kramer [00:11:42]:
Yeah, but that’s different. Women demand, right?
Mariia Kramer [00:11:45]:
Yeah. I won’t care because he can provide and for his child and for our future children. I don’t care. Why would they care? I love babies.
Robbie Kramer [00:11:54]:
That’s my whole point is a man who has children in baggage isn’t that big of a deal compared to a woman because his earning power not necessarily. I’m saying he’s got a higher earning power. It’s on the dating market. It’s kind of lopsided in terms of like a woman having baggage is a lot more of a red flag than a man having baggage because of that. David Bus talks about this in his book. It’s all about evolutionary psychology and what is it? The evolution of desire. It’s called So, great book.
Mariia Kramer [00:12:28]:
Yeah. I recommend I also listen.
Robbie Kramer [00:12:34]:
My whole theory is, does money matter? Yes. Does your current level of wealth matter? Yes. But what matters more is your potential. And showing to women that you have potential can overcome any sort of shortcomings that you might currently have. Like, for example, if you’re let’s take our friends, they’re both at Harvard, right? We won’t use them by name, but first guy starts with an A, the other guy starts with a J.
Robbie Kramer [00:13:05]:
Robbie Kramer [00:13:06]:
They’re both Harvard students, which signals to women that they’re probably going to be pretty rich one day soon.
Robbie Kramer [00:13:11]:
Robbie Kramer [00:13:12]:
I think those guys have a ton of status.
Mariia Kramer [00:13:16]:
Harvard, of course. But I didn’t understand you in the beginning when you were saying about the potential. I just say that initially people need to be on the same level. You don’t want to take anyone from the lower level, that’s all. And obviously, if we’re in the same level to start our relationship, obviously I see new potential. That’s why I know that we will grow together. We will level up all the time. Then it’s important, the potential.
Robbie Kramer [00:13:43]:
To give an example from my life, when I was in my early to mid twenty s, I had virtually zero success with really gorgeous, high status women. Because as a guy in their early 20s, it’s very difficult to have status.
Robbie Kramer [00:14:00]:
Robbie Kramer [00:14:00]:
Guys don’t hit their sort of peak sexual market value, usually until their mid 30s, because it takes us a lot longer to mature, to gain resources, to leverage those resources, to build a business, to build some wealth, and to be in a position of status. Whereas women mature in the sexual marketplace really early, basically like 18, right?
Mariia Kramer [00:14:21]:
Because early are you kidding me?
Robbie Kramer [00:14:23]:
Well, by the time you hit 1718, you are as hot as you’re ever going to be.
Robbie Kramer [00:14:28]:
Robbie Kramer [00:14:28]:
And you’re going to remain hot. You’re going to remain that hot until you’re about 2526-2724.
Mariia Kramer [00:14:35]:
You think I have only three years left.
Robbie Kramer [00:14:37]:
You’re in your peak hotness stage.
Mariia Kramer [00:14:39]:
No, we’ll stay forever there.
Robbie Kramer [00:14:40]:
Okay, you’ll stay there for a really long time because you keep yourself in good shape and you’re beautiful and all that stuff, right? You take care of yourself.
Robbie Kramer [00:14:47]:
Robbie Kramer [00:14:48]:
But your peak level is in your early, late teens, early twenty s to the end of your 20s, right. And then whatever, you can use Botox. You do all those things to make yourself look beautiful. My mom is almost 70, and his mom I don’t want to say anything about that. It’s your mother in law, by the way.
Mariia Kramer [00:15:07]:
Robbie Kramer [00:15:08]:
You understand? You’re saying what milk means? I know, mom. I’d like to fuck. Yeah, if you call her a milk. Yeah.
Mariia Kramer [00:15:15]:
Anyway, she meal for a guy.
Robbie Kramer [00:15:17]:
Mariia Kramer [00:15:20]:
You cannot say this, but she is amazing. She looks so hot.
Robbie Kramer [00:15:24]:
She looks great for her age, of course. But women mature at a very early age because their value on the sexual marketplace is primarily looks based. That’s what men are looking for.
Robbie Kramer [00:15:36]:
Robbie Kramer [00:15:36]:
We’re looking for all those things, and I need to get into that. It’s just pretty obvious, right? And they say women are sex objects and men are success objects.
Robbie Kramer [00:15:47]:
Robbie Kramer [00:15:47]:
Like, women get objectified. Women get objectified for their sexuality, their body, tits and ass, all that stuff. Men get objectified for their bank account, their wealth, and their status.
Robbie Kramer [00:15:58]:
Robbie Kramer [00:15:58]:
So each side is objectifying the other side. That’s how we’re wired.
Robbie Kramer [00:16:03]:
Robbie Kramer [00:16:04]:
But for a man to become objectified for those things, he needs to have built those resources. And that usually doesn’t happen, like I said, until late 20s. Early 30s, kind of around 33 is when I see it happening for most guys. So what you also see is in the late 20s, you see this kind of, like, marriage zone, right? And that’s when a lot of people get married from the age of, like, 27 to 30. Why do you think that is?
Mariia Kramer [00:16:34]:
I don’t know. I wanted to marry until 27.
Robbie Kramer [00:16:37]:
Okay, there you go. Like your marriage zone until 27.
Mariia Kramer [00:16:41]:
I mean, because I’m Ukraine, people are getting married there until like, 27. That’s in Ukraine. If you are not married and you’re over than 30 and you’re a girl, everyone is like, something wrong with her. She’s not married. I don’t want to marry her. Because.
Robbie Kramer [00:16:58]:
In countries that haven’t been affected by feminism as much, like Eastern European countries, the age that women want to start a family and get married is younger.
Robbie Kramer [00:17:11]:
Robbie Kramer [00:17:11]:
You see in the US. And Western Europe that women are looking to further their career and do a lot of those other things before they want to get married. So you see that timetable being shifted a lot. Like, look at Nifty and Matt, my sister and brother in law, right? They didn’t get married until they were, what, 30? 35.
Robbie Kramer [00:17:32]:
Robbie Kramer [00:17:32]:
And now she’s pregnant at 37, and that’s like, dangerously late for having the baby. Everything is good, and fingers crossed for that. But that’s on the tail end. So you see a lot of women freezing their eggs and doing things to preserve that. But my point was kind of forgot. My point was that this marriage zone is taking place. And what we see there, we see this intersection between a woman’s sexual market value kind of starting to go down, right? Because her looks are starting to fade with age. But a man’s sexual market value in his late 20s is going up and you see this marriage zone intersection, right? If on the X axis we have time and on the Y axis, I guess it’s this way or is it this way? We have access, right? So time access. As time goes by for women, their access gets lower. As time goes by for men, their access gets higher because men are getting more successful, becoming more of success objects and women are becoming less of sex objects. So what you happen to see a lot is you see the women who spent a ton of time in the dating market going through their slutty phase, having fun, doing all the things that they can do. Like a woman’s access when she’s hot and she’s like 23 years old is the same as most billionaire men. She can go to any party she wants. She gets into anywhere, private jets, yacht trips. Like the world is completely open. They call it a pussy pass, right? Like you have that pass as a beautiful woman. You don’t have that pass as a guy. Right? You can buy it if you’re really rich. That’s what I’m saying. You got to be like a billionaire to have that sort of access. So what you see is you see guys who just start to become successful and become mature in their late twenty s and they haven’t had a chance to really been to be with a lot of beautiful women. So they marry the first really hot one. They think they scored. What they didn’t realize is they hadn’t even come close to hitting their peak.
Robbie Kramer [00:19:39]:
Robbie Kramer [00:19:41]:
I’m not saying that’s bad.
Mariia Kramer [00:19:42]:
Listen, they love each other and they will be till the end of their lives together. It’s a great thing.
Robbie Kramer [00:19:47]:
Statistics don’t say that. Statistics say that most of them will get divorced and they will. Especially those guys who didn’t have a chance to experience your parents get married so early. It’s a different time, it’s a different.
Mariia Kramer [00:19:59]:
Era and still and most of their.
Robbie Kramer [00:20:01]:
Friends got divorced, right? So it’s like of course there’s exceptions. But what I’m saying is, as a man, I’m really glad I waited until I was 40 to get married because I still feel young. I just got this haircut. I think I look about 30. Yeah.
Mariia Kramer [00:20:19]:
And I don’t like it when you look older. That’s why I married the older guy. That’s why I will be always beautiful and young for you. Yeah.
Robbie Kramer [00:20:26]:
See, we’re a 17 year age difference, which I think works great. And the reason why we worked is both of us were at sort of our peak on the sexual market value scale, right? I had my choice between extremely beautiful women like you who were cool and fun. I picked the best one fit for my person personality between a bunch of really good looking ones. But that’s because I built my status and I built my wealth and I built my power to a place where I had that access. Whereas if I had gotten married when I was like 28 or 30, I probably would have been looking over my shoulder the whole time being like, oh, I missed out on a bunch of fun because I’d see guys on yachts with hot girls. I’d be like, I want that. How do I get on a yacht? Should I buy a yacht? I can’t afford a yacht.
Robbie Kramer [00:21:11]:
Robbie Kramer [00:21:11]:
But then as I figured it out, as I got older, I learned how to leverage my resources and get the yacht for free.
Mariia Kramer [00:21:18]:
Robbie Kramer [00:21:19]:
And having those experiences. So what you see, women are savvy. Women understand this stuff. And that’s why it’s to their advantage to get married before they hit 27 to 30.
Mariia Kramer [00:21:35]:
We have best option in this age. And after it’s harder. No one wants you. People still want you, but you need to choose from the older man.
Robbie Kramer [00:21:45]:
If you’re a guy and you’re like, oh, my God, my biological clock is going off. I’m 28, wake up. You have a lot of time. And if you want to have those experiences before settling down, which I recommend, you do have those experiences if you’re drawn to them, if you don’t want them and you don’t care, more power to you. Like, go get married, have a family, do that, be happy.
Mariia Kramer [00:22:04]:
The same with girls. If they want to have fun, they can do whatever, but do not wait until 38.
Robbie Kramer [00:22:12]:
Right? But as a man, if you want those experiences, you need that level of status and success, and it takes time to do that. I’ve seen very few guys, maybe professional athletes have that in their early 20s, right? Most guys need a lot more time to procure those resources and to build those skills that they can leverage into status and power and money and fame or all that stuff, right. So I guess getting back to the point, money matters a lot. Money matters in terms of how old you are and whether you’re showing wealth or you’re showing potential, right? If you’re in your early 20s, you can’t show wealth because you don’t have any. But you can show a lot of potential when you’re on dates. You can talk about your hopes and dreams and what you want to do. If you talk about your big dreams and you show that potential, women will gladly hitch their cart to your wagon or cart to your horse, as they say, and they’ll marry you because they have potential even if you don’t have money.
Robbie Kramer [00:23:13]:
Robbie Kramer [00:23:14]:
That’s why it’s so important if you do go to a school that’s prestigious.
Mariia Kramer [00:23:18]:
Robbie Kramer [00:23:18]:
Like if you do go to Harvard.
Mariia Kramer [00:23:20]:
Or you will be a future doctor, future lawyer, some really successful professions. Women know that you are YouTuber or podcaster. Women know that you will be successful later on and you will be able to provide for the children. It’s the main thing that guys need to understand. Women always think if you will be able or not provide for their children and you can’t judge them.
Robbie Kramer [00:23:46]:
Well, that’s evolutionary psychology.
Mariia Kramer [00:23:48]:
But they don’t think about this. It’s just insane how guys forget.
Robbie Kramer [00:23:53]:
Yeah, the idiots. They don’t think about that. I hate that I called myself a YouTuber. I’m not a YouTuber, damn it. I just post on YouTube sometimes you are.
Mariia Kramer [00:24:01]:
Soon you will be famous.
Robbie Kramer [00:24:02]:
So if you don’t have money, focus on what you can do to still show status and to show your potential. If you do have money, don’t be the douchebag who flaunts your money. That’s only going to get you gold diggers.
Robbie Kramer [00:24:15]:
Robbie Kramer [00:24:16]:
You want to show versus tell. You don’t want to have to tell people and talk about these things to interrupt our story. We’ll get into that in a second. But like what I mean by show versus tell, the stereotypical rich douchebag will take girls to dinner, really fancy dinners, the horrible first date. But they’ll take girls really fancy dinner and they’ll spend 30 minutes talking about their wine collection, right. In an attempt to show off that they’re so sophisticated and smart and rich. And what are the girls doing? Just like falling asleep.
Mariia Kramer [00:24:47]:
Or they’re like, oh, this guy has a lot of money. It’s good. And they won’t look further for his personality. Some girls like that.
Robbie Kramer [00:24:55]:
They’ll figure out a way.
Mariia Kramer [00:24:58]:
In our situation, you never invite me on any dates. We will stop by McDonald’s.
Robbie Kramer [00:25:04]:
So I realized when I kind of hit my peak sexual market value, I realized that anytime I invited a hot girl on a date, it caused my sort of status to slightly lower because now I was the one chasing her.
Robbie Kramer [00:25:21]:
Robbie Kramer [00:25:21]:
If we look at investment levels and you always want the investment levels to be the same when you meet someone new, you want your investment level to ratchet up in par with hers.
Robbie Kramer [00:25:31]:
Robbie Kramer [00:25:32]:
And I realized that, okay, yeah, I could meet these girls and I could try to take them on dates, but now I’m the one pursuing. And if I’m the one pursuing and I pursue her into bed, then she’s also going to assume that I want a relationship. And that could cause drama because I was sleeping with a lot of women.
Mariia Kramer [00:25:50]:
I mean, if you’re a good option, obviously, that girls want to have relationship with you. It’s normal.
Robbie Kramer [00:25:54]:
Yeah, well, that was good. But the whole dating process, when you have tons of options and you’re still trying to have fun can get a little bit murky. So what I wanted to do is I wanted to remove that chance for drama. And I also, more importantly, I wanted to remove the me sort of chasing. I want a woman to chase me.
Robbie Kramer [00:26:14]:
Robbie Kramer [00:26:15]:
And it’s very hard to get a really beautiful woman to chase you unless you have tons of beautiful women around, which I did. But by showing that you have tons of beautiful women around, you look like an incredible fuck boy. Which I did look like that too, but I needed to kind of balance that out because when I met you, I was like, okay, this girl is everything I want. From a physical perspective, she’s beautiful. But more importantly, you had this sort of personality that someone, like, I could actually trust.
Robbie Kramer [00:26:39]:
Robbie Kramer [00:26:40]:
Because I dated a lot of women who were hot and fun and all those things, but they just didn’t have the integrity that I was looking for. I didn’t feel like I could always kind of be myself and feel, like, warm and fuzzy around them.
Robbie Kramer [00:26:52]:
Robbie Kramer [00:26:53]:
Maybe I’m not describing that the best, but I can tell that you didn’t.
Mariia Kramer [00:26:57]:
Want to pretend was me. You felt that you don’t need to pretend and you can just be yourself. Yes.
Robbie Kramer [00:27:03]:
I mean, somewhat. But more importantly, I felt like you were interested in what I was interested in. I felt like you wanted a family one day. I felt like you weren’t trying to go out and validate yourself with getting a bunch of hot guys to hook up with you. I didn’t feel like you were trying to become instagram famous and needed that sort of validation of like, look at me, look at me. And that’s what I felt.
Mariia Kramer [00:27:27]:
I mean, if it will happen, I will be happy, but it’s not like I will sleep.
Robbie Kramer [00:27:32]:
You weren’t obsessed with that. Yeah, like a lot of women who are obsessed with validation is they’ll kind of like, jump from guy to guy to try to get more validation. Like they’ll try to hook up with celebrities to get those guys to post about them. Right. They’re trying to status chase and sleep their way to the top, you could say. No, I didn’t feel like you were doing any of those sort of things that I felt like a lot of the other girls that was meeting were doing.
Robbie Kramer [00:27:53]:
Mariia Kramer [00:27:54]:
I mean, you were meeting the girls.
Robbie Kramer [00:27:56]:
Well, I set up a social circle that attracted a lot to porn stars, lots of very sexual crazy fun.
Mariia Kramer [00:28:03]:
What did you expect?
Robbie Kramer [00:28:04]:
Well, I wanted to have fun and be crazy, and I was doing Playboy trips and those sorts of things. So, yeah, I was filtering for hot. But that’s a problem. When you filter for hot, you’re also filtering for crazy.
Robbie Kramer [00:28:15]:
Robbie Kramer [00:28:16]:
So the crazy hot matrix, you were very hot, but you weren’t that crazy. So you’re kind. Of like the unicorn. Right? Of course you’re still crazy and fishy and all those things, but thank you. You’re not as ridiculous as some of those girls, but you’re still as hot as those girls, in my opinion. So I realized, like, okay, this girl’s a catch, and she’s the type of girl that I would happily leave the dating scene for. I’d had a ton of fun and checked everything off my bachelor sexual bucket list and I wanted to move into the next stage of life. I was just kind of getting sick of that whole party world. So when I met you and we met through a friend, it was really important to me to manage your perception of me. Plus, I wanted to make sure you weren’t a gold digger. But I also wanted to make sure that you didn’t think I was broke because I was going out of my way to kind of show girls that I didn’t have much money because they’d all ask me for money otherwise, and I didn’t want to constantly say no and turn them down. So I was living in Kiev. I had a nice one bedroom apartment in the middle of the city with a nice view of the river and the park.
Robbie Kramer [00:29:29]:
Robbie Kramer [00:29:29]:
So your perception of me was probably that I wasn’t broke. But before we met, what did you think? I had a reputation of being like a fuck boy in an asshole, which all kind of helped me in the long run. Because you knew about me, right. You already knew who I was, which means I had a level of status in your mind. But how much money did you think I had?
Mariia Kramer [00:29:52]:
I didn’t think you had a lot of money. I mean, you had enough money to live good in Ukraine, but it’s not a lot of money.
Robbie Kramer [00:30:01]:
Mariia Kramer [00:30:01]:
Yeah, it doesn’t take much because it’s so cheap to live in Ukraine, especially for American.
Robbie Kramer [00:30:05]:
Yeah. My cost of living was around, like, five grand a month. And I could live like a king.
Mariia Kramer [00:30:09]:
Like a king.
Robbie Kramer [00:30:11]:
All the fancy restaurants, going out to clubs, popping bottles. For five k, you could live really comfortably for three k. Yeah.
Mariia Kramer [00:30:18]:
Robbie Kramer [00:30:19]:
Really comfortable. Like, my rent was $1,000 a month?
Mariia Kramer [00:30:22]:
Robbie Kramer [00:30:22]:
Robbie Kramer [00:30:22]:
The rent now is for a one bedroom comparable for our place here in La. Is comparable to our place in Kiev in terms of, like and it’s desirability niceness, all that stuff. We’re in a two bedroom, but if we were in a one bedroom, this would be what, 35, 3500?
Mariia Kramer [00:30:43]:
Some of them.
Robbie Kramer [00:30:43]:
So, yeah, it’s like rent is like a third cheaper there, but anyways, good. We’re getting off topic here. So you thought I had some money.
Mariia Kramer [00:30:52]:
Yeah, you had some money to live in Ukraine, but it’s not a lot, but it’s still comfortable for living, and it was enough for me. I didn’t expect that you to have a lot of money, right?
Robbie Kramer [00:31:05]:
Yeah. And I didn’t have a lot of money. I mean, I guess you were pretty close with your expectations. I had some investments from all the airbnb properties that I had done over the years, saved some money, but it wasn’t like rolling in the dough. I have my dating coaching business, of course, but at that time I wanted to flex a little bit. So you thought I had a little bit more money, right.
Mariia Kramer [00:31:33]:
Oh my God.
Robbie Kramer [00:31:34]:
And I also didn’t want to take you on a date either. So the way that we met is your friend Anna, who is also my friend, invited you over to smoke shisha. We met and then I would invite you to different parties I would host over the course of the next few weeks. I’d have these pre parties in my house and we’d all go out to a club or we’d have a dinner party and we go out to the club or we’d have a house party. And you saw there’s lots of girls around, there’s a lot of competition, you saw girls like and I would just leave. You left. But I still managed that well and I still like I basically I did a good job. Anna and I were already friends, so I always kind of like used Anna to get you to come out.
Robbie Kramer [00:32:15]:
Robbie Kramer [00:32:15]:
Because you and Anna and also Anna was living in one of my airbnbs and you needed a place to stay for a little while. So you were also staying in that airbnb, which was a great sort of tool for me to show some, what do you call that, persuasion or not persuasion, but just anyway to show some stats. So a real estate deal came along with my buddy Igor and we had the opportunity to invest in some office space and he was going to do all the renovation as a local and deal with that and I was going to put up some money. So to show a little bit of financial flexing, I intentionally invited you to come to the office where I was going to sign some of the paperwork and drop off a bunch of cash. So I was like, okay, I can use Maria to translate because I got to make sure the documents are legit and I can also drop off some stacks of money. So when I did that, I’m curious, did your perception change of me? Did that change in your mind? Because it wasn’t like there was a reason, like I needed you to translate. So it wasn’t like an obvious thing.
Mariia Kramer [00:33:31]:
I saw that you have money, but I knew that you had money before. Not like a lot of money, but some money. And I was like, yeah, this guy is getting better. In my eyes, probably. But it was not about that deal. It was about more that you start behave to me differently. I think it’s all complex altogether of course.
Robbie Kramer [00:33:55]:
Yeah, of course. But I always thought that was kind of like an interesting that was a clever way for me to show, like, okay, I’m investing in property. I’m someone who isn’t just, like, a sex tourist living in Kiev.
Robbie Kramer [00:34:11]:
Mariia Kramer [00:34:11]:
No, definitely, because it was more trustful.
Robbie Kramer [00:34:17]:
There’s a lot of sex tourists, western guys living in Kiev for cheap.
Robbie Kramer [00:34:21]:
Robbie Kramer [00:34:22]:
And girls are savvy. I knew that a smart girl like you would see right through that type of guy.
Mariia Kramer [00:34:26]:
Yeah, of course. I don’t even speak to them.
Robbie Kramer [00:34:29]:
But guys think they can get away with that shit. Obviously, now you can’t go to Ukraine because of the war. I mean, you can, but I wouldn’t. Those options, like, guys think they’re all clever, but, like, the local hot girls, they’ve got that figured out. Of course, there’s so many douchebag expats sex tourists in these different countries thinking.
Mariia Kramer [00:34:47]:
Like, oh, yeah, you know, someone approached you, they’re on Christ Shaddik. And you can tell if it’s a good guy or not immediately. You used to get approached by ten guys per day on three Shaddik. That’s so you already can figure it out. Like this is good guy. This is not.
Robbie Kramer [00:35:02]:
So the next part of how I kind of reeled you in was I was doing a road trip with my buddy around eastern Ukraine. This was during COVID summer of 2020, and you couldn’t really fly anywhere. So we’re like, let’s take a trip. At the time, they both were his cars. I later bought the car from him because I loved it. But we took his two cars, which were pretty nice, like a Range Rover and a Mercedes, and we created some Instagram ads. And we showed those Instagram ads to all the hot girls. They weren’t ads. And we promoted the posts, and we promoted these two guys with their two dogs in their cars. Road tripping. We called ourselves Concert Tour, but initial.
Mariia Kramer [00:35:53]:
Idea was for you and eager to go then and promote it for hot girls. But you met me before the trip. I don’t want to lose Maria.
Robbie Kramer [00:36:01]:
I’ll get to that. So we had this hot trip planned, and what we would do was when we got to a city, we’d promote one of our posts, and we’d use the Instagram advertising tools to show that to target beautiful girls. And our plan was to go from Kia to Poltava to Harkov to Zaparoja to Nipro, down to, like, Maryupul over to Odessa, and then back to Kiev. So just a big, giant loop of Eastern Ukraine. And I wanted to see the country and all of those different cities. But we met about a month before the trip, and I knew if I went on that trip that I would probably lose that window of opportunity for us to start something. And I really didn’t want that to happen. So I was like, all right, how can I still have this trip? And have fun while not losing Maria and also not taking Maria on a date. I knew you were attracted to me because we had, like, kissed a few times in the apartment during Spin the Bottle games or silly other games that I played, but I still wasn’t quite sure. But as we were hanging out more and more, it became obvious that you were into me. But look at him. I still needed to kind of get you away.
Robbie Kramer [00:37:24]:
Robbie Kramer [00:37:25]:
And I felt like going on a trip would be the best thing, but I didn’t want to be like, let’s you and me take a trip somewhere, because then it’s, like, so obvious. So I use the trip as a perfect opportunity to hopefully have our relationship turn into actually a relationship right. To turn our attraction into a relationship. So I hired you to be our content manager.
Mariia Kramer [00:37:46]:
You never paid me.
Robbie Kramer [00:37:49]:
Put a ring on it. What do you want? So your job was to come with us and manage the content, take videos, photos, edit, do all those things. And obviously it’s great that if you’re trying to pick up hot girls, it’s really good to have a really hot girl with you. So I said, Worst case scenario, even if it doesn’t work out, she’ll be an excellent wing woman, and Igor and I will have a great time right. With Wiley and Junior and all the other girls that we’re going to meet. So you showed up about two weeks into the trip and we had made out and had, like, our first kind of real kiss the night before I left.
Robbie Kramer [00:38:24]:
Robbie Kramer [00:38:25]:
And you had some stuff to finish up at university and moving and whatnot. So you came about two weeks later. And then, of course, as things unfolded, we became a couple, and by the end of the trip, we were on the trip for another month and a half. By the end of the trip, you just basically moved into my apartment when.
Mariia Kramer [00:38:44]:
We came back to Keeves, right?
Robbie Kramer [00:38:45]:
Yeah, but the timing was great because you were moving out from your university housing.
Mariia Kramer [00:38:50]:
I wasn’t moving out. No, I wasn’t.
Robbie Kramer [00:38:52]:
Mariia Kramer [00:38:53]:
No, but I wasn’t living in my university house. I was renting apartments and the landlord told me, you need to leave in two weeks.
Robbie Kramer [00:38:59]:
Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean university housing, I meant your housing wall at university.
Mariia Kramer [00:39:05]:
Yeah. I just didn’t understand. Yeah. And when you invited me to the trip, my landlord told me, like, you must live in two weeks, and it was insane. She could have she didn’t give you much notice. Yeah. And you invite me on the trip and I already spoke to my best friend Andres, but can I stay at your place at least for like, a month when I will find a new place and you invite me on the trip? And I was like, oh, it’s actually a good opportunity. I will earn some money. It will be so much fun to travel, and I will have time to find a new place.
Robbie Kramer [00:39:36]:
Yeah. So the only one who got screwed out of the deal a little bit was Igor because he didn’t have his wingman for most of the trip, but we still made do. And you were a pretty good wing woman for him. We had some funny stories about him using you as a pawn to meet some girls at that club in Nipro. We still had a good time. We got some great content, if you guys want to follow that. It’s called UA road trip. So what we did is the first post we did was this one. This was us at the Kia food Market before we were leaving. And then this is when we hit the road. Beginning of a great Ukrainian adventure. Here’s the two cars. Here’s us two idiots with our dogs. And we would promote this to girls in, like, pultaba. So this girl is saying Odessa Victor property, right? My friend Maya. Did you ask someone at the gas station to take this? It’s funny. So then we’d get to a new city. This was some videos we made in Poltava Park Verholi, where we actually wanted to go there.
Mariia Kramer [00:40:46]:
Yeah, you missed this part. I just couldn’t go.
Robbie Kramer [00:40:48]:
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. I brought my drone and we made some cool videos like this. So it’s amazing what you can do with a little bit of creativity promoting.
Mariia Kramer [00:41:01]:
And it’s actually a good idea for guys if they want to do something like this, no matter where they are. If they have a wingman, they can also create an Instagram page and just promote the boost the post for Wiley here for young girls.
Robbie Kramer [00:41:16]:
So as time went on, once you showed up, you know, we started doing, you know, better videos.
Mariia Kramer [00:41:24]:
Robbie Kramer [00:41:24]:
This was in Nepro at the Bartolomew. Are you in this video?
Mariia Kramer [00:41:29]:
No, I did record.
Robbie Kramer [00:41:32]:
Yeah, this is us and Nebro. I think I got tetanus from sitting on the sign. Not actually, but that disease you can get for sitting on something rusty. I guess that’s our long winded answer for does money matter? Status matters. Money is part of status, and of course it matters. Showing your potential matters just as much, if not more than money. So if you want to date tens and you’re not a ten, well, guess what? You better make yourself a ten. And part of making yourself a ten is your wealth.
Mariia Kramer [00:42:06]:
It’s actually wealth game. It’s great that you mentioned this because there are a lot of guys who are like, five, six, and they look for girls like 910, and they’re like, oh, they’re fucking bitches.
Robbie Kramer [00:42:17]:
They’re gold diggers.
Mariia Kramer [00:42:18]:
They’re gold diggers. But you’re so low on the level.
Robbie Kramer [00:42:25]:
Well, they’re mad at women because they’re not being chosen. But they need to look in the mirror and ask themselves, why am I not being chosen.
Mariia Kramer [00:42:30]:
Yeah. I mean, no. If he will go and approach girls at the same level, like five and six girls will be happy to meet, right. But they don’t want those girls. They want to so girls so beautiful and hot and it won’t work unless you’re also like eight, nine and ten.
Robbie Kramer [00:42:46]:
Yeah. Get your game in order, get your money game in order.
Mariia Kramer [00:42:50]:
Get your style, get your fashion look, make a good haircut, maybe make money curve for your nails to look good.
Robbie Kramer [00:42:58]:
Just join the IC community and we’ll help you do it. That’s the best way to do it. Thanks for coming on, baby. Appreciate.
Mariia Kramer [00:43:06]:
Robbie Kramer [00:43:09]:
Mariia Kramer [00:43:10]:
Robbie Kramer [00:43:13]:
I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. If you’re new to the show and digging our content, please leave us a five star review on itunes, Stitcher, YouTube, wherever you listen or watch. But if you’re not really digging it, go ahead. Just don’t leave us any review at all. That’d be great. If you’re feeling a little bit stuck or you just want to optimize and step up your game, we’ve opened up a few spots in our inner confidence community. We’re accepting applications. If you want to join our select group of men and experience a radical power of accountability, cross everything off your sexual bucket list and just become a beast who gets more stuff done. To learn more and apply, go to start innerconfidence.